Zhu Yuanzhang Returns from Modern Times

Chapter 231 Zhu Yuanzhang: Scholars are morally superior? Ha! Bah!

Song Lian requests an audience?

Upon receiving the report, Zhu Yuanzhang was slightly taken aback, but he was not surprised at all.

It was only natural that Song Lian would come to see him at this time.

This guy finally couldn't hold back anymore.

"Let him in."

He wanted to see what Song Lian would say.

Sometimes, it's necessary to debate the truth in order to gain clarity.

It was entirely within his expectations that Song Lian would come to see him at this time.

In fact, Zhu Yuanzhang had been waiting for Song Lian since the establishment of the National Industrial University.

As a result, Song Lian only arrived now.

This was actually what surprised him to some extent.

Song Lian was more composed than he had imagined.

Or one could say that his efforts over the past year have begun to bear fruit, bringing about some changes in Song Lian.

Otherwise, given Song Lian's personality, he would probably have come over long ago and had a good talk with the emperor about these matters.

"Mr. Jinglian, His Majesty requests your presence."

Eunuch Wang spoke to Song Lian.

Upon hearing this, Song Lian, led by Eunuch Wang, headed towards the Wuying Hall.

"Your subject Song Lian pays his respects to Your Majesty and inquires about your health."

Song Lian bowed to Zhu Yuanzhang with great solemnity and in a very formal manner.

"We're doing fine."

Zhu Yuanzhang smiled and nodded, then ordered someone to prepare a seat for Song Lian.

Eunuch Wang brought over a brocade bowl for Song Lian and invited him to sit down.

After bowing his thanks, Song Lian sat down. Despite his advanced age, he stood up straight.

Moreover, only a small part of his buttocks was sitting on the brocade stool.

From this point of view alone, there is absolutely no fault to be found; he was indeed respectful to the emperor.

"Mr. Song, what brings you here today to see us?"

Zhu Yuanzhang smiled knowingly and asked the question without fully understanding.

"Your Majesty, we have been ordered to compile the Hongwu Dictionary."

"We have already achieved some initial success, so I could not contain myself and wanted to come and report to Your Majesty."

"Mr. Song, please speak quickly."

Even though they knew that this was just an appetizer before Song Lian was about to get to the point.

They came to me to discuss the matter properly.

But Zhu Yuanzhang still put in his best effort, appearing very serious and concerned.

After all, the Hongwu Dictionary is fundamental and an important foundation for developing education and popularizing knowledge.

Only when dictionaries are well-made can we build upon them to better develop scholarship and improve our level of expertise.

This laid a solid foundation for the prosperity of the Ming Dynasty.

Knowing this, Zhu Yuanzhang treated those who compiled the dictionary with great respect.

On the one hand, the task is arduous; on the other hand, compiling a dictionary truly requires genuine talent and learning, and is not something that ordinary people can do.

Immediately, Song Lian began to tell Zhu Yuanzhang the story.

Through Song Lian's account, Zhu Yuanzhang learned that, based on the Shuowen Jiezi (a dictionary of Chinese characters), the compilation speed of his Ming Dynasty's Hongwu Dictionary was not too slow.

The list of words that begin with the letter C has now been compiled.

The one starting with the letter 'd' is already halfway done, so the progress is indeed not slow.

This is partly because Zhu Yuanzhang valued the Hongwu Dictionary highly, as was the knowledge of those who compiled it.

On the other hand, how many of those selected to compile the Hongwu Dictionary didn't want to compile it well and thus leave their mark on history?
Furthermore, with the Emperor's promised Yongle Encyclopedia and the construction of the library looming ahead, they were even less likely to slack off.

Song Lian also brought some of the manuscripts for Zhu Yuanzhang to see.

Zhu Yuanzhang observed it very carefully.

As he had requested, the dictionary was indeed compiled entirely in simplified Chinese characters.

The various ways to write the character are listed in parentheses after the simplified character.

In addition, there is pinyin, and all of them are laid out horizontally.

Seeing this familiar face, Zhu Yuanzhang felt relieved.

This is still the kind of beauty that brings joy and tranquility; this is what a dictionary should look like.
Using simplified characters will save writing time and greatly reduce the difficulty of reading and writing, making it more conducive to students' early education and helping more people acquire knowledge.

This is tantamount to fundamentally lowering the threshold for learning.

For the many people who seek knowledge and pursue scholarship, this is undoubtedly a wonderful thing.

Zhu Yuanzhang looked at it very carefully, and it took him a while to look away from it.

"Good, well done. Keep up this standard and keep up the good work."

Zhu Yuanzhang carefully organized the manuscript and returned it to Song Lian, giving it high praise.

Although he knew that Song Lian's visit to see him this time was definitely not that simple, but rather about the Industrial University and the toilet paper that was currently causing such a stir.

However, things need to be viewed from two perspectives; we cannot negate all other aspects because of one particular point.

If the Hongwu Dictionary is well-compiled, then it is well-compiled, and that should be acknowledged.

One should not lie against one's conscience.

"To receive such praise from Your Majesty is enough to satisfy us."

Next, I will certainly keep His Majesty's instructions in mind and do a better job of compiling the Hongwu Dictionary, ensuring that this task is done without any mistakes.

I have lived up to His Majesty's high expectations, lived up to my own thoughts, and lived up to the scholar's robe I wear.

A golden age of culture begins here.

This is the foundation; it must be laid solidly!

Upon hearing this, Zhu Yuanzhang's smile deepened.

"With Mr. Song's words, we can rest assured."

It would be most reassuring to let Mr. Song and others handle such matters.

In studying and pursuing scholarship, one should be as rigorous and meticulous as Mr. Song.

Praise is cheap, but you should still give praise when it's due.

Use verbal rewards whenever possible.

Moreover, Song Lian and the others did a really good job, and they truly deserved their praise.

"Your Majesty, I have recently heard that Your Majesty has established an industrial university."

Now, something has been developed: toilet paper.

The main purpose of this toilet paper is for using the toilet; is that really true?

After carefully putting away the draft of the Hongwu Dictionary, Song Lian looked at Zhu Yuanzhang and asked him this question.

Zhu Yuanzhang immediately knew that this was the main point of Song Lian's visit.

"Mr. Song, you heard right, that's how it is."

The toilet paper for the industrial university was something we ordered them to do, gave them the ideas, and directed them to work towards that goal.

I didn't expect the skill level to be so high.

"They've managed to get it done in such a short time; it's been a wonderful surprise."

Zhu Yuanzhang made no attempt to hide it and directly acknowledged it.

Not only that, he also took the blame for the whole thing himself.

Let everything rush down, and don't overly involve the trend of industrial universities.

"Your Majesty, I feel that Your Majesty's decision is inappropriate."

Song Lian looked at Zhu Yuanzhang and spoke in a serious and methodical manner.

It was as if they hadn't heard Zhu Yuanzhang say that he had instructed the people from the Industrial University to do it.

"Where is the impropriety?"

Zhu Yuanzhang asked a question.
“It is most inappropriate to manufacture this kind of paper not for academic purposes, but simply for people to use as toilets.”

Song Lian spoke up, his expression still solemn.

"Didn't you read the latest issue of the Da Ming Daily?" Zhu Yuanzhang asked Song Lian.

Song Lian shook his head: "Your Majesty, I have read it."

"Since you've seen it, why would you say such things?"
Could it be that you feel what's said in there is incorrect?

Song Lian shook his head: "I think that what that article said makes sense."

"Then why did you come to see us and say all this?"

"I believe that although what is said there is correct, it is biased and contains sophistry."

"Tell me," Zhu Yuanzhang said calmly, showing no sign of anger.

The Ming Daily reported that His Majesty ordered the production of this toilet paper not for his personal enjoyment.

Rather, it was the officials who felt sorry for so many powerful and wealthy people, including eunuchs, rich merchants, and magnates, who used cloth, even fine silks and satins, for their toilets, and even kept maids for them.

So they created artificial toilet paper to break these bad habits.

By saving so much cloth, more people can have clothes to wear, and live with greater dignity.

"What, you think these things are wrong?"

Zhu Yuanzhang spoke again. "I also think that's very true."

If you think it's right, then it's fine.

Zhu Yuanzhang remained silent, sitting there waiting for Song Lian to continue.

He wanted to see what kind of nonsense Song Lian could come up with.

"However, in my opinion, these claims are somewhat exaggerated."

If wealthy merchants, high-ranking officials, and other prominent figures use toilet paper instead of cloth for urination, then ordinary people will have clothes to wear.
I don't think so.

The cloth that those people saved remained in their hands and was not given to the poor to use.

Whether they are frugal or not has little to do with the poor.

Ordinary people will not benefit from this.

Even if all these people use toilet paper in the future and give the savings to the poor, how many people will actually benefit from it?

Therefore, I think it would be better to use the materials used to make toilet paper to make paper for reading and writing.

Only in this way can the price of paper be further reduced, making books more affordable for more people.

With more scholars and more people learning the ways of the sages, people's lives and morality will improve accordingly.

In this way, those high-ranking officials and wealthy merchants would not be so extravagant.

Knowing that such extravagance is rampant, it is wrong not to treat people as human beings.

Once people understand the principles and realize that doing things this way is wrong, many will stop doing it, thus allowing the people to live better lives.

Furthermore, many people would give cloth to the poor so they could wear it.

Zhu Yuanzhang laughed upon hearing this. What a fine example of relying solely on morality! What a self-righteous person!
"We don't agree with what Mr. Song said. Does that mean we shouldn't do it just because the effect is small?"
We will benefit as many as we can, and save as many as we can.

We all know the principle of "Do not refrain from doing good because it is small, nor do evil because it is small." Could it be that a great Confucian scholar like Mr. Song has forgotten this?
This also applies to helping people and improving their lives.

If something is not going to be done, then we shouldn't do it at all.

This is clearly incorrect.

Even if you do one part, you will still have some credit. Even if you do ten parts, you should still do it.

If it's done and someone benefits from it, then it's worthwhile.

As for Mr. Song's statement that if more people read books and understand principles, then wealthy merchants and powerful families will be able to eat their fill.

Making them realize that what they are doing is wrong will make them stop using cloth.

We don't agree with this either.

How many of those who are so extravagant and wasteful of good things today are illiterate and do not understand principles?
But they are still using it.

It is clearly impossible to restrain them with morality alone.

When Song Lian seemed to have something to say, Zhu Yuanzhang waved his hand and said, "We can't say that all scholars are like this."

However, it can be said that the vast majority of scholars cannot reach such a high level.

Moreover, this matter has little to do with reading or anything like that; it's a matter of personal character and nature.

The pursuit of beautiful things and a beautiful life is a fundamental human instinct.

It's not easy to rely solely on morality to restrain people.

As for the idea that these people would have a change of heart and then give cloth to the people so that they would have clothes to wear.

To us, this is utterly ridiculous.

Money can move people's hearts; once they have money in their hands, how many people would be willing to give it away?
We don't deny that some people are indeed kind-hearted.

They repaired bridges and paved roads, set up soup kitchens during disaster years, and helped with disaster relief.

But how many of those who do these things are truly sincere and genuinely kind?

How many people outwardly appear to be doing these things, acting as great philanthropists in the surrounding villages, but in reality, they are living off the blood of their fellow villagers?
Their actions are utterly despicable.

Many people may do the work of distributing porridge during times of famine.

But in ordinary times, how many people would be willing to give away cloth to the people to wear?
Even if someone does it, how many people will it affect, and how many will actually benefit?

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

I think Mr. Song understands this principle as well.

"The purpose of making this toilet paper is to teach people how to fish!"

"Your Majesty, I am foolish and cannot see where the teaching of fishing is located."

The sanitary facilities produced by His Majesty are still only available to the powerful, wealthy, and other privileged families.

It was of no benefit to ordinary people, or even many scholars.

Upon hearing this, Zhu Yuanzhang laughed and said, "That's because you haven't seen far enough."

There's a saying that goes, "When the granaries are full, people know honor and shame," and that's exactly what it means.

Living in this world, people need food, clothing, shelter, and transportation; these are essential and sought after by everyone.

People who are content with a simple life do exist, but they are few and far between.

When we look at a problem, we should consider the majority of people, not the minority.

That's a huge distortion.

For most people, the pursuit of better food and a higher quality of life is a basic human instinct.

In this situation, it is impossible to persuade people to use the toilet without cloth simply by reading books and moral constraints.

Perhaps a small number of people will stop using it, but most people will still do as they please.

Even if we issue strict orders, we cannot control this matter.

We can't exactly go to their home and send someone to watch over them, can we?
Alternatively, they could implement measures such as a law to encourage them to report each other.

Once it is verified that someone has violated the ban by using cloth as toilet paper, they will be arrested and all their property will be confiscated.

And then give a portion of it to the whistleblower?

Upon hearing such raunchy words, Song Lian quickly shook his head.

This is something he does not want to see, and it goes against his own wishes.

"And many things cannot be solved simply by issuing orders."

If we say something, the people below will listen to it and do it accordingly.

If the Ming Dynasty had been better long ago, there wouldn't have been any corrupt officials.

We have already issued orders prohibiting the buying and selling of slaves, forbidding people from doing so.

But has it really been banned?

No.

It's just that those people changed their name and started adopting godchildren to circumvent the rules.

What we're saying—that providing toilet paper is like teaching people how to fish, and that it benefits them as well—is not sophistry or nonsense.

Toilet paper may not seem to be in high demand now, but once the market develops, the demand will definitely increase exponentially.

To manufacture toilet paper, a considerable number of people are needed to work.

Such as selling hay, collecting hay, working in workshops, packing, transporting, and selling hay.

Those high-ranking officials and nobles wouldn't do it; it definitely needs to be done by ordinary people.

Once it's done, money needs to be paid, which can create numerous jobs.

It can benefit many people.

They can use the fruits of their labor to improve their lives, buy cloth to make clothes for themselves or their children.

Isn't this much more dignified than receiving charity from others?
People cannot rely solely on aid; it can only provide temporary relief, not a lasting solution.

Giving them money and gifts directly not only lacks dignity, but also makes many people lazier.

The best approach is to provide them with the necessary conditions so that they can take initiative and get things done.

We know that these methods alone cannot benefit many people; only a portion of the population can perform these tasks.

We should not refrain from doing good deeds just because they are small. If we can benefit some people, we should do so first.

One must eat one bite at a time; we can't expect to improve everyone's life all at once.

We don't have that much ability.

That's not realistic either.

Upon hearing Zhu Yuanzhang's words, Song Lian fell silent, remaining speechless for a long time...

"But Your Majesty... with so many people involved in these matters, who will farm the land and how will food be produced?"

Zhu Yuanzhang laughed upon hearing this, saying, "That's a good question, but there's no need to worry too much about this matter."
Industrial universities were established to address these issues.

What if in the future one person cultivates more land than two, or even five or ten people do now?

In that case, would there still be any worry about a lack of people to farm and produce food?

Song Lian's gaze sharpened as he looked at Zhu Yuanzhang, utterly incredulous.

What nonsense is the emperor spouting?
How could such a thing be true?

When did one person become able to cultivate so much land?
What should we use to plant it? How should we plant it?
Even if you work day and night until you're exhausted to death, it's impossible for one person to cultivate more land than five or even ten people can do now.

Is the emperor starting to spout nonsense because he can't argue with himself on this matter?

……

"Everyone, don't worry too much. Things aren't as bad as we think."

As far as I know, Mr. Jinglian went to see the Emperor today.

I spoke frankly and impartially about this matter.

With Mr. Jinglian's talent, he will surely be able to make the emperor realize his mistakes and turn back from the wrong path!

Inside Yingtian Prefecture, someone looked at the person next to them and smiled, a calm expression on their face...

(End of this chapter)