Rebirth 1977 Great Era

Chapter 1306 The Sixth Debate by Newcomers: Integrating Traditional Chinese and Western Medicine; Yu Yunxiu's Thought Reappears (Two Chapters Combined)
Upon hearing the dialect, the six people looked at each other in bewilderment.

Integrating traditional Chinese and Western medicine?
Why are you suddenly bringing this up?

One of the boys, Pu Shijie, was the first to stand up and say:

"This concept should have appeared around 1956. The original idea was to combine the knowledge of traditional Chinese medicine and Western medicine to create a new unified Chinese medicine and pharmacology."

"However, there are no regulations on how to combine them. It's just a matter of Western medicine as the mainstay and Chinese medicine as the supplement, or Chinese medicine as the mainstay and Western medicine as the supplement."

“Some teachers at our school have experienced this period, and most of them believe that traditional Chinese medicine is based on a holistic view and syndrome differentiation and treatment, emphasizing the harmony between humans and nature and the human body’s internal organs; while Western medicine is based on modern sciences such as anatomy and physiology, focusing on etiological treatment and local intervention. The two treatment logics are incompatible. If they are to be combined, it will take a long time of clinical exploration to find a path to integration. At present, the model of integration should be mutual auxiliary treatment.”

"From a clinical perspective, we usually use Western medicine to deal with severe cases, taking advantage of its rapid effectiveness to reduce the mortality rate and shorten the course of the disease. Then, we use Traditional Chinese Medicine to regulate the body's constitution, improve the patient's symptoms, reduce the side effects of Western medicine, and improve the patient's quality of life."

"Simply put, this is based on the complementary advantages of disease characteristics and patient needs: Western medicine treats, and traditional Chinese medicine regulates. This is my understanding of the integration of Chinese and Western medicine."

Without stating his opinion or changing his expression, Fang Yan asked:

"Anything else to add?"

“It’s gone!” Pu Shijie shook his head.

Fang Yan then looked at the other five people and said to them:

"Come on, someone's already shared their thoughts, now it's your turn to share your understanding!"

Then a very thin-looking boy stepped forward, adjusted his black-rimmed glasses, and said:

“I’m from Hebei and I haven’t studied integrated traditional Chinese and Western medicine, but based on my understanding, I believe that traditional Chinese and Western medicine were not created for integration.”

I've seen his profile; his name is Zhu Zhixin.

Zhu Zhixin said:
"The two systems were not born in the same soil, so forcing them to be combined will only lead to incompatibility."

"Moreover, I really can't see what's so special about combining these two things!"

"Western medicine dissects visible bones and flesh, while traditional Chinese medicine circulates intangible qi and blood. One disassembles parts to repair a machine, while the other regulates the universe in accordance with the four seasons. Forcing them together is like forcing an abacus to solve calculus!"

"Western medicine's strong drugs damage the liver and stomach, hormones ruin the kidneys, and then we turn to traditional Chinese medicine to prescribe remedies to clean up the mess."

"What's the difference between this and stabbing someone in the back and then giving them wound medicine? They call it 'complementary advantages,' but it's clearly using traditional Chinese medicine as a rag to wipe the dirty backside of Western medicine!"

"Western medicine treats acute illnesses, while traditional Chinese medicine regulates the later stages? This isn't called integration; it's just letting foreigners use the rice bowl left by our ancestors as a spittoon! A dose of Ephedra Decoction in traditional Chinese medicine can reduce high fever, and Angong Niuhuang Pill can refresh the mind and clear the senses. Aren't they all incredibly effective? If we insist on degrading ourselves to 'clean up the mess,' we'll only end up turning our pulse diagnosis and acupuncture into toilet paper!"

"If you ask me, those who like Western medicine should go for Western medicine treatment, and those who believe in traditional Chinese medicine should go for traditional Chinese medicine treatment. Forced relationships are never sweet. If you force them together, and something goes wrong, someone with less say will take the blame."

"This is my understanding of the integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine!"

Zhu Zhixin's words immediately silenced the room. Several students subconsciously exchanged glances, some frowning, clearly disagreeing with his sharp statement.

Some people nodded quietly, as if their unspoken doubts had been touched upon.

Pu Shijie, who had spoken earlier, looked rather grim, clearly feeling that his remarks were being targeted.

Fang Yan did not express his opinion, but said calmly:
"Anything else to add?"

"Yes!" Zhu Zhixin said.

He continued:
"What I just said is because I haven't studied the integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine, so that's why I said it. It only represents my current feelings, and I may have other thoughts later."

"After all, what I think is impossible, someone else might actually be able to do?"

This guy is quite meticulous.

Upon hearing this, Pu Shijie's expression did not improve. Instead, he cast a disgusted look at Zhu Zhixin, feeling that this guy was extremely annoying. He said whatever he wanted, and Zhu Zhixin got to decide whether it was good or bad.

Fang Yan also remained silent, and asked the remaining four people:

"Who's the third one?"

“I’ll go!” A girl stepped forward. Fang Yan knew that the girl’s name was Deng Chunyan, and she was from the same school as Pu Shijie.

She said she first bowed to the dialect, took a step forward, clasped her hands in front of her, and spoke in a calm tone:

"My understanding of the integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine comes from my father. He was originally a Western medicine doctor at the county hospital. He participated in a 'learning Chinese medicine from Western medicine' training course in the 1950s and now works at Yanjing Hospital, which is directly under the Ministry of Health."

Fang Yan never expected that he would find a fish that had slipped through the net.

Deng Chunyan slightly raised her chin, glanced at Zhu Zhixin, and then said:
"I believe that the integration of traditional Chinese medicine and Western medicine is not about one side cleaning up the other's mess, but about letting Western medicine put on the shoes of traditional Chinese medicine and walk a more stable path!"

She pulled a frayed notebook from her pocket, her movements as solemn as unfolding an imperial edict, and then said:
"The Ministry of Health's textbook, 'Outline of Learning Western Medicine from Traditional Chinese Medicine,' clearly states: First, use a stethoscope to measure blood pressure to confirm the depth of the lesion, and then use observation, auscultation, inquiry, and palpation to differentiate between cold and heat, deficiency and excess. For example, in treating pneumonia—if lung rales are located in the chest and diaphragm when auscultated, and the tongue coating is yellow and greasy with a slippery and rapid pulse, it indicates phlegm and heat obstructing the lungs. In this case, using Ma Xing Shi Gan Tang with Houttuynia cordata is faster than using penicillin alone to reduce fever!"

Her voice suddenly rose:
"One year, my father treated a child with sequelae of meningitis. After a lumbar puncture confirmed that the intracranial pressure was normal, he only needed three doses of Tianma Gouteng Decoction! The Western medicine's electroencephalogram was just a reference; the real power came from the foundation of traditional Chinese medicine's liver-soothing and wind-extinguishing methods!" She closed her notebook and said with a proud look:

"Therefore, I believe this is the true combination: Western medicine diagnosis serves as a road sign, while traditional Chinese medicine treatment is the fundamental solution! Walking on two legs is always better than Western medicine jumping on only one leg!"

After she finished speaking, she said in dialect:

"I have nothing more to add."

Fang Yan nodded. The three people had given their three opinions. What were the opinions of the remaining three people?

“Let’s continue!” Fang Yan said to the remaining three.

At this moment, another girl stepped forward and said, "I'll do it!"

This girl's name is Guo Xiaomei. She came from Hebei University of Traditional Chinese Medicine with Zhu Zhixin. She said:

"Although I didn't study integrated traditional Chinese and Western medicine in school, my father and maternal grandfather were both traditional Chinese medicine practitioners. They weren't the kind who sat in hospitals, but the kind of itinerant doctors who traveled around the villages. They were later called barefoot doctors. My father and grandfather spent their whole lives treating people in the village. They never went to a proper hospital, but people from all around trusted them. When I was a child, I often squatted by their medicine boxes and watched them take pulses. I heard them tell patients, 'You have yin deficiency and excessive fire,' or 'Your spleen is damp.' The patients understood, and the medicine worked."

"Back then, no one called these things feudal superstitions, because the illness was really cured."

She paused, then continued:
"Later, a Western medicine team came to the village, bringing stethoscopes, thermometers, and colorful pills. At first, everyone was excited. When a child had a fever, they would go to the Western doctor for injections and also ask my grandfather to prescribe Chinese medicine. But things gradually changed. Some people said, 'Yin and Yang and the Five Elements are invisible and intangible, how can they be as reliable as the temperature reading on a thermometer?' Others said that my grandfather's prescriptions were 'a blind cat stumbling upon a dead mouse.' Once, my grandfather prescribed Xiao Qinglong Tang for an elderly man with a cough and asthma. The old man drank it for two days and his cough stopped. But the Western doctor said, 'This was just a coincidence. If it were pneumonia, drinking herbal medicine alone would kill someone.' The illness was clearly cured, but it was said to be 'a coincidence,' and they even used the 'death' to scare people."

At this point, she looked up and glanced at everyone present, her tone becoming heavier:
“My dad told me that it’s not that traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) is afraid of Western medicine, but that the rules have changed since Western medicine came along. Before, TCM emphasized ‘treatment based on syndrome differentiation,’ meaning how to treat and for how long, all based on the patient’s pulse and tongue coating. Now, they want to do tests first, take X-rays. If the X-rays don’t show anything wrong, and you say the patient has ‘liver qi stagnation,’ people will say you have ‘no scientific basis.’ Last year, a woman in the village was always dizzy. Western doctors did a lot of tests but found nothing wrong. My dad prescribed Xiaoyao San for her, and she recovered after drinking it for half a month. But some people said, ‘Western doctors couldn’t find anything, so TCM got a free ride.’ This isn’t a free ride; it’s clearly the skill of TCM!”

She took a deep breath, as if pouring out all the words she had been holding back:
"I'm sorry, I've gone a bit off-topic... but I have to say these things. I think that what is being talked about now as 'integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine' is not really about putting them together to treat diseases; it's about traditional Chinese medicine making compromises."

"Traditional Chinese medicine practitioners have to first agree with Western medicine's explanations, saying things like 'You have high blood pressure' or 'That's gastritis,' and then apply Western medical terms like 'calming the liver and suppressing yang' and 'strengthening the spleen and stomach' to the Western medical diagnoses. Otherwise, no one will believe you."

"If we don't do tests or look at the scans, and just talk about Yin and Yang and Qi and Blood, we'll be accused of being unscientific. But Traditional Chinese Medicine has never said that Western medicine is wrong. Western medicine can quickly reduce fever and perform surgery to save lives, and these are all good things. So why should Traditional Chinese Medicine hide its roots and conform to the rules of Western medicine? Isn't this a compromise?"

She loosened her grip on the hem of her clothes, and her eyes softened: "I'm not against using Western medicine when treating illnesses, but I feel something is wrong. It's like we have to apologize to Western medicine before we can use the medicine we've inherited from our ancestors. If this is what you call combining medicine and medicine, then it's just too frustrating."

After saying that, she lowered her head and added softly, "I...that's what I think, nothing else."

Hearing this, the remaining two looked at each other, and one of them, a round-faced boy with glasses, stepped forward and said with a smile:
"I think the integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine is something that happens when neither Western nor traditional Chinese medicine can cure a patient. You let the other side try it; maybe it will cure them. As long as it works, it doesn't matter if it's traditional Chinese or Western medicine. That's what the integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine is all about. And even if it doesn't work, you can say the other side is incompetent." "Anyway, I know that Director Fang often uses the integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine..."

"For all the diseases that Western medicine can't cure, people come to him for combined treatments!"

"..." Fang Yan was speechless at this kid's antics. He remembered that the guy's name was Zou Guoqing.

Zou Guoqing scratched the back of his head, his smile widening, but his tone revealed a shrewdness:
“I haven’t read many grand theories, but I know that when it comes to treating illness, you have to look at the results. Last year, I was helping out at the local health center. There was an old man who was coughing so badly he couldn’t breathe. The Western doctor took an X-ray and said it was emphysema. He received IV fluids for three days, but he still felt suffocated and his face turned purple. Later, the old director told us to see a traditional Chinese medicine doctor. The doctor took his pulse and said it was ‘deficiency of both lungs and kidneys.’ He prescribed a lung-tonifying decoction, and after drinking it for two days, the old man was able to get out of bed and walk. What do you think that is? The Western medicine couldn’t cure him, but the traditional Chinese medicine did. Isn’t that what combination therapy is all about?”

He leaned forward and counted on his fingers:

“And then there’s my cousin-in-law. When she was pregnant, her blood pressure was high. Western doctors wanted her to be hospitalized to prevent miscarriage, saying they were worried about eclampsia. My mom found a traditional Chinese medicine doctor, who said it was ‘liver yang rising’ and prescribed chrysanthemum and uncaria infusions for her to drink, along with Western antihypertensive medication. Her blood pressure gradually stabilized, and she eventually gave birth to a healthy baby boy. If she had only relied on Western medicine, my cousin-in-law would have been lying in bed in fear every day; if she had only relied on traditional Chinese medicine, her blood pressure could have spiked, which would have been dangerous. Combining the two, isn’t that the solution?”

“I also heard from my uncle that a worker in their mine injured his leg. Western medicine set the bone, but the wound wouldn’t heal and kept oozing pus. Later, they went to a traditional Chinese medicine doctor, who used herbs mashed into a paste to apply, and the wound scabbed over in just a few days. Do you think this was because the Western medicine doctor didn’t finish the job, or because the traditional Chinese medicine doctor got the benefit? I don’t think it was either. It was because the Western medicine doctor could set the bone, and the traditional Chinese medicine doctor could help the flesh grow back, and together they managed to save the leg.”

He shrugged, his tone becoming even more direct: "I don't think 'who's the primary and who's secondary' or 'whether we compromise' is important. What's important is whether we can cure the disease. If Western medicine can cure it, we'll use Western medicine; if traditional Chinese medicine can cure it, we'll use traditional Chinese medicine; if both can help, we'll use both. Even if it doesn't cure the disease, it's not the fault of 'combining' the two methods, it's that we haven't found the right approach. It's better than clinging to one method and watching the patient suffer, right?"

This guy is a typical pragmatist. He doesn't explain much to you; as long as the problem is solved, he doesn't care about the process. This is very obvious, and only a student who has been exposed to both traditional Chinese medicine and Western medicine would say such a thing.

After speaking, Zou Guoqing stated:
"This is my understanding of the integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine. Of course, if we use what that student just said, it's not really an integration, but more like wiping each other's butts. But wiping butts sounds awful, doesn't it?"

As soon as Zou Guoqing said this, the tense atmosphere in the meeting room suddenly relaxed a bit. Two students couldn't help but laugh out loud, and even Pu Shijie, who had been frowning, subtly curled the corners of his mouth.

Zhu Zhixin pushed up his glasses, didn't refute, but just hummed softly, clearly still disagreeing with the "wiping the butt" analogy, but didn't dwell on it anymore.

Now only one person is left, Lin Hongjun, who is also from Capital Medical University. He said:
"Is it my turn to speak?"

Fang Yan glanced at Zou Guoqing, wondering if he had anything to add.

Zou Guoqing said:
"Of course, I myself studied traditional Chinese medicine, and this is my understanding of the concept of integrating traditional Chinese and Western medicine. It does not mean that I originally endorse this approach."

After he finished speaking, he glanced at Fang Yan and smiled at her.

This kid clearly knows that Fang Yan is treating patients using pure traditional Chinese medicine, so among all these people, he's the most cunning one. He answered, but it seems like he didn't really answer.

While seemingly clarifying his understanding of "integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine," he subtly left room for maneuver, neither completely siding with "supporting integration" nor explicitly "opposing integration," nor conflicting with the dialect's stance of "pure traditional Chinese medicine treatment," thus cleverly achieving a balance between the two.

Take his speech as an example. In the first half, he listed examples of emphysema, gestational hypertension, and wound healing, all based on the practical logic of "as long as it can cure the disease," which seemed to indicate his agreement with the value of "combination." However, in the second half, he suddenly added two sentences, first clarifying his point of view from the "cleaning up mess" argument, and then emphasizing that "I myself studied traditional Chinese medicine" and "this does not mean that I originally agreed with this approach." Finally, he even gave a smile to Fang Yan. With these two sentences, his previous "support" became "I was just talking about 'combination in other people's eyes,' not that I actually agree with it myself."

It's true that you can find all sorts of birds in a big forest.

Fang Yan didn't express his opinion, but looked at Lin Hongjun, raised his hand towards him, and said:
"Alright, it's your turn to speak."

Lin Hongjun first raised his hand to push up his thick black-rimmed glasses, rubbing his fingertips along the edge of the lenses, his expression serious:

“I went to the same school as Pu Shijie and Deng Chunyan, but my views on the integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine are different from theirs, and even different from everyone else’s.”

Everyone's eyes couldn't help but turn to him, and Fang Yan also showed an expression of great interest.

“I think this whole thing is wrong from the root. The mistake is that we shouldn’t have forced two things that should be opposing forces together,” Lin Hongjun said.

He paused, his gaze sweeping over the people in the conference room, finally settling on Fang Yan, and then asked:
"Director Fang, you must know Yu Yunxiu, right?"

Fang Yan was taken aback; he hadn't expected anyone to still remember this.

Students who haven't attended Fang Yaozhong's lectures in their class are unlikely to think about this, especially those TCM students recommended by workers, peasants, and soldiers. (See Chapter 781)
Fang Yan nodded and said:

"Know!"

After hearing the dialect's reply, he continued:
“Our school library still has his book, Ling Su Shang Dui, which he wrote back then, as well as his proposal to abolish traditional Chinese medicine. At that time, he said that the “yin-yang and five elements” and “meridians, qi, and wei” of traditional Chinese medicine are all theoretical, while the anatomy and physiology of Western medicine are the real ones. The two are not the same at all… Isn’t the current “integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine” just a new “nice-sounding” way of doing what he opposed back then?”

"Yu Yunxiu wanted to abolish traditional Chinese medicine back then because he felt it was unscientific; now he talks about combining it with Western medicine, does that mean he thinks traditional Chinese medicine can fill the gaps in Western medicine? I think the essence is still that he thinks traditional Chinese medicine is inferior to Western medicine!"

Lin Hongjun raised his voice slightly, his expression was very serious, and his eyes swept over everyone present before stopping on Zhu Zhixin:
"Just like Zhu Zhixin said, Western medicine treats people like machines, dissecting them, while traditional Chinese medicine treats people as a whole and regulating them. Yu Yunxiu said back then, 'When a machine breaks down, you have to fix the parts, it has nothing to do with regulating the heavens and earth.' Now, when the parts can't be fixed, they think of using traditional Chinese medicine to 'regulate the heavens and earth.' Isn't that a slap in their own face?"

"In 1929, the Ta Kung Pao published a debate on the 'Abolition of Traditional Chinese Medicine,' in which Yu Yunxiu said, 'Traditional Chinese medicine has no anatomical basis, no physiological basis, and its treatment is entirely based on conjecture.' At the time, the TCM community criticized him for forgetting his roots. Now, the integration of TCM and Western medicine is just like that. Should we, who study TCM, first learn Western anatomy? Should we be able to read lab reports? Should we attribute yin deficiency and excessive fire to endocrine disorders? Isn't this just following Yu Yunxiu's path? It's called 'integration,' but in reality, it's erasing the roots of TCM!"

“What Yu Yunxiu couldn’t accomplish back then is now slowly coming to fruition under the guise of a partnership.” Lin Hongjun’s tone was tinged with gritted teeth. “He said traditional Chinese medicine is unscientific, so now we have to use the science of Western medicine to prove that traditional Chinese medicine is useful; he said traditional Chinese medicine is based on conjecture, so now we have to rely on Western medical instruments to corroborate and diagnose it.”

"What do you mean by integration? This is Chinese medicine being transformed by Western medicine. In the end, they may not even dare to mention Yin and Yang anymore, and all that's left is 'cooperating with Western medicine for conditioning'!"

The way he spoke made the dialect suspect that he was possessed by the medicine.

There was a hint of disappointment in his eyes:
“I debated this issue with some teachers at school. They said that the integration was to allow traditional Chinese medicine to survive, but I think that traditional Chinese medicine that survives by cooperating with Western medicine is no longer true traditional Chinese medicine. Yu Yunxiu’s call to ‘abolish’ it was open; the current ‘integration’ is a covert process. In the end, traditional Chinese medicine’s ‘pulse diagnosis’ and ‘prescriptions’ will become ‘accessories’ of Western medicine, which is worse than ‘abolition’.”

"Later I found out that the teacher was actually Yu Yunxiu's student..."

Lin Hongjun took a deep breath, his tone softening slightly, but still firm:

"Therefore, I think that the integration of traditional Chinese medicine and Western medicine was a mistake from the very beginning. Yu Yunxiu saw the contradiction between the two back then, but he used the extreme method of abolishing them; people nowadays have not seen it clearly, or they pretend not to see it clearly, and insist on using integration to cover it up... In the end, traditional Chinese medicine still suffers, and it still loses the things of our ancestors."

After saying that, he nodded slightly to Fang Yan and said with a calm expression:

"Director Fang, that's my opinion. I have nothing to add."

The room fell silent again, this time even more so than when Zhu Zhixin spoke. Lin Hongjun didn't rant about "cleaning up the mess" or argue about "who's in charge." Instead, he started with an old case from decades ago, linking "integration" with "Yu Yunxiu's opposition." It was like pouring cold water on everyone, making the previous "practical" and "complementary" arguments seem like they were just going down the same old path.

Fang Yan nodded, but still didn't express his opinion, maintaining a calm expression.

He now has a pretty clear understanding of the six people's attitudes.

Pu Shih-chieh's stance is to support the integration of traditional Chinese and Western medicine, belonging to the academic and moderate reformist faction.

Zhu Zhixin holds a radical stance and is a typical opposition figure who strongly defends the independence of traditional Chinese medicine.

Deng Chunyan supports the integration of traditional Chinese medicine with Western medicine, but it must be led by traditional Chinese medicine practitioners, belonging to the "Western learning from Chinese medicine" reformist faction.

Guo Xiaomei shares the same stance as Zhu Zhixin, but she criticizes the combination as a compromise between traditional Chinese medicine and Western medicine.

Zou Guoqing is a pragmatist; his stance is that of a results-oriented fence-sitter.

Lin Hongjun shares the same stance as Zhu Zhixin, but he is the only one who directly points out the lingering influence of Yu Yunxiu's ideology.

These six people are very much like the polarization of opinions within the current Chinese medicine community.

Lin Hongjun was one of the few, and he was someone who had crossed paths with Yu Yunxiu's disciples and followers back in school.

This guy's got something.

However, Fang Yan still did not express his attitude towards them. Now he needs to continue to observe and see how they perform in actual combat.

PS: The 6000-word basic chapter is now complete.
(End of this chapter)