Diqin Designer

Chapter 432 Resolving Fusu's Doubts

Fusu's question is actually about choosing between morality and the rule of law: should the country be governed primarily by morality or by law?

For future generations, is there any need to think about this?

It will definitely be based on the rule of law!

But in this day and age, this is not a simple question; it often leaves people confused, unsure of which is better and how to choose.

This wasn't a question unique to Fusu; others had the same question. Therefore, upon hearing Fusu's question, everyone in the garden looked at Li Nian, wanting to know how she would answer.

Under the watchful eyes of everyone, Li Nian said, "Young Master, your question is indeed a question: how should one choose between morality and law, and which should be prioritized in governing a country? My answer can be clearly stated to you all: governing a country should prioritize the law!"

Should the law take precedence?

Upon hearing Li Nian's answer, Fusu silently recited it to himself, then said to Li Nian, "I would like to hear my brother-in-law's insightful opinion!"

Li Nian waved his hand and laughed, "I wouldn't call it a brilliant insight; I'm just picking up scraps from others' ideas. Let's exchange and discuss them together."

After making this polite remark, Li Nian did not immediately explain why he believed that law should take precedence over morality in governing a country. Instead, he posed a question to the crowd: "In your opinion, what is the relationship between morality and law?"

Li Nian's question, which she posed instead of answering, made Fu Su and the others fall into deep thought. Most of the young masters had obviously not thought about this question in depth, except for Fu Su.

He pondered whether governing a country should be based primarily on law or morality, and he deeply considered the relationship between the two and compared their differences.

Fusu replied, “Morality and law have something in common, such as moral wrongdoings often being illegal acts, but they are also different. For example, the law is more stringent, while morality is more lenient.”

The other young masters didn't answer, and Li Nian didn't wait for them either. After Fusu finished answering, he nodded and said, "What you say is correct, young master. Morality and law have similarities and differences. But why do they have similarities and differences?"

Although Li Nian asked another question, this time he did not let anyone answer it. Instead, he answered his own question, saying, "This is because the two are different in nature and play different roles in the country or society."

He looked at Fusu and said, “Your Highness’s doubts must stem from the belief that morality is of the highest quality and that governing the country with morality would surely bring peace and prosperity. However, in practice, you have found that using morality to deal with problems is not as effective as you thought. On the contrary, the strict laws that Your Highness seems to be very effective.”

These words struck a chord with Fusu, giving him the feeling that "Li Nian is my brother-in-law, a true confidant!"

What Li Nian was talking about was his experience in the local area. He originally wanted to govern the area with benevolence and virtue, but the locals not only did not believe him, but also thought he was easy to bully. As a result, after he learned his lesson and changed his way of doing things, the locals actually began to listen to him.

On the surface, it seems like the locals are ungrateful; they think that being treated gently and kindly is not enough and that they have to be whipped. But if you think about it more deeply, it means that his original benevolent rule has failed, while the harsh laws and tyrannical rules he disliked have succeeded.

This is what truly upended Fusu's Daoist heart and is the fundamental reason for his change. Otherwise, given Fusu's temperament, he wouldn't have wanted to change on his own initiative, and even the First Emperor couldn't have made him change!

Fusu sighed and said, "Just as my brother-in-law said, but I still can't figure out the reason. Please enlighten me, brother-in-law!"

Li Nian asked with a smile, "Does the young master think morality is better, or law is better?"

Without hesitation, Fusu answered the question: "Of course, morality is better!"

Morality demands a higher standard than law. If everyone could act morally and perform moral deeds, the whole country would become a nation of virtuous people.

Li Nian laughed and said, "That's the problem! Better morality means higher moral standards than the law. Achieving every virtue in morality is much harder than simply not breaking the law!"

"Furthermore, if a country is governed by morality, everyone must abide by morality, and those who do not will be punished. This not only does not help promote morality, but is actually harmful. If you see someone in trouble on the street and lend a helping hand, this is a good deed and a moral act!"

"But if this is turned into law, stipulating that one must help someone in distress on the road, then the situation will change."

"If a passerby encounters someone drowning, according to this moral code, this person must save the drowning person. If they fail to save them, or if the rescue is not timely and the drowning person dies, they will be punished and criticized by everyone. But what if this person is not a good swimmer and cannot find suitable equipment to save the person? What should this person do?"

Fusu and the others began to ponder Li Nian's words. Helping those in distress was a good thing, a righteous act, a good deed, and a moral matter. So why did it become so difficult?
One of the young men muttered, "What a coincidence! He's not a good swimmer, and he can't find anything to use for rescue. If this person can't help, he can go and call for help from others!"

Li Nian pretended not to hear the murmur and added, "If this person encounters someone who has fallen into the water and there is no one else around, what do you all think this person should do?"

Once this condition was added, many people immediately thought of some negative answers: to avoid being punished for failing to save someone, this person might choose to ignore the drowning person and not even call for help, thus completely cutting off the drowning person's chance of survival.

In fact, if the person who fell into the water saw this passerby, the passerby might even choose to try to kill the person!
The person who fell into the water might not have died, but died because of the moral principle that "one must help those in distress on the road".

Fusu understood Li Nian's intention in giving this example. He wanted to tell Li Nian, "This is just your assumption; it's unlikely that this situation will actually occur," but he couldn't bring himself to say it.

Fusu sighed, “This is similar to ‘Zigong redeeming people.’ It was originally intended to help people in distress, which is a moral act. It was well-intentioned, but it backfired!”

Li Nian laughed and said, "Although this is a good thing, it is bad because it is forced. Not everyone has the ability to help people in distress. In the example I gave, if a passerby is not a good swimmer and goes into the water to save someone, nine times out of ten he will fail to save the person and will also get into trouble himself."

"Therefore, while rescuing people in distress is a moral act, it should not be forced. People should be able to choose whether or not to rescue based on their own circumstances. Otherwise, it is not only not a good deed, but also a bad policy!"

"This is one reason why morality, though seemingly better than law, is not suitable for governing a country. Moreover, if a country were truly governed by morality, then many hypocritical people and hypocritical deeds would inevitably emerge in the world!"

"For example, filial piety exists in morality..."

Li Nian first put on a layer of armor and said to Fusu and the others, "I am not saying that 'filial piety' is bad. We are all born of parents, and it is the duty of children to be filial to their parents. What I want to talk about is not that, but what if there were a country that governed the world based on 'filial piety' and selected talents based on 'filial piety'? Whoever is more filial to their parents and has a better reputation for filial piety would be selected as an official. What do you all think of such a country?"

A country that governs the world and selects talents based on "filial piety" sounds good, but Fusu thought about it for a moment and realized some of the problems.

Fusu said in a deep voice: "To govern the country, we must select virtuous and talented people and appoint them to official positions. Only in this way can the country become stronger. How can we select people to be officials simply because they are filial? Filial people are not necessarily talented. Appointing them to official positions because of their filial piety is more harmful than beneficial to the country!"

"Moreover, this country is governed by the principle of 'filial piety,' so there will inevitably be people who deliberately pursue a reputation for filial piety and fabricate stories of filial devotion. These people do not actually want to be filial to their parents; they do it on purpose to gain official positions and fame. It is not true filial piety, but false filial piety!"

Li Nian said, "Stories like 'lying on ice to catch carp' and 'burying one's son to support one's mother' will be passed down!"

The phrases "lying on ice to catch carp" and "burying one's son to support one's mother" are quite unbelievable, but upon closer examination, it's possible that some people would actually do such things to gain a reputation for filial piety: lying on ice to ask their parents for carp, or burying their own son to support their parents.

Leaving aside the former, how can the latter be considered a moral act?
“This country is governed by ‘filial piety,’ so there will surely be people who deliberately fabricate such stories. Such hypocritical acts will spread throughout the world, and hypocrites will occupy positions in the court.”

Fusu nodded seriously. He fully understood the meaning of Li Nian's example. If the country is governed by morality and people pursue morality, it seems like a good thing, but in reality, it will allow many people to use morality as a cover to cover themselves up, giving rise to a large number of false moral acts and false moral people.

Not only will it fail to achieve the goal of governing the country with morality, but as Li Nian said, it will also spread false morality throughout the world, and false moralists will occupy high positions, turning the country into a country of false morality, which is even further away from true governance with morality.

Fusu then asked, "In your opinion, brother-in-law, is pursuing morality wrong?"

Li Nian shook his head and said, "Of course not. If the world could truly achieve governance by morality, there would be no more strife, and the country would be prosperous and the people at peace. The problem is that at this stage, it is impossible to truly achieve governance by morality. If we force it, it will be like the example I gave."

"Morality demands more than law. Although it cannot be the primary principle in governing a country, it can serve as a major supplement to the law. That is, while governing a country should be based on law, morality can be promoted and a moral perspective can be established at the same time."

Fusu said, "I understand. The law is fundamental, but people can also be encouraged to abide by morality."

Li Nian smiled and said, "Young Master thinks that law and morality have something in common, but in fact, much of the content of law comes from the morality that people agree with. It can be said that without morality, law would be difficult to come into existence!"

Fusu felt that Li Nian's words, "If there is no morality, then the law will be difficult to appear!" were so well said that he felt as if he had been blocked for a long time and suddenly his mind was clear.

Li Nian continued, "Laws also uphold morality, upholding those recognized moral concepts, such as those who commit murder pay with their lives, and those who steal are guilty... If a country formulates laws that do not consider the morality of its people, or even contradict the moral conventions that have been established within its borders, problems will inevitably arise!"

One of the young men said, "Since morality and law are so closely related, why can law govern a country, but morality cannot? In fact, forcibly governing a country with law can be harmful to the country!"

Before Li Nian could answer, Fu Su replied first: "That's because moral requirements are too high, while legal requirements are lower than moral requirements. Therefore, the law is suitable for more people, but morality is not. In short, the law is a lower standard of morality!"

After Fusu finished speaking, he looked at Li Nian, wanting to know if his understanding was correct. Li Nian gave an affirmative answer: "Just as you said, sir! Morality is the foundation of law, and law is the minimum requirement of morality!"

The statement, "Morality is the foundation of law, and law is the minimum requirement of morality!" resonated deeply with Fusu and others.

"It's difficult to expect everyone to be morally perfect, but it's much easier to get people to abide by laws with lower requirements. However, precisely because the law represents the minimum moral standard, it must be mandatory, and those who violate the law should be punished accordingly!"

"Because this is the bottom line, which cannot be crossed. If it is crossed again, the country will be without rules and regulations. Morality is different. It has higher requirements for people. It cannot be forced, and people cannot be punished for not meeting the moral standards."

Gongzi Gao said, "So, even if some things are immoral, as long as they don't violate the law, they can't be punished?"

Li Nian nodded and said, "Of course, they shouldn't be punished according to the law!"

Fusu keenly grasped the phrase "in accordance with the law" in Li Nian's words, as if he had understood something.

He asked, "If the law cannot punish them, what if the law is not followed?"

Li Nian looked at Fusu and said, "It is acceptable, but the punishment should be within the bounds of the law and must not violate it. If someone works for a family and the employer knows that the person is morally deficient and of bad character, it is perfectly acceptable for the employer to terminate the employment."

Fusu nodded. Moral transgressions cannot be punished by law, but can be punished in ways that do not violate the law.

Li Nian added, “Another major difference between morality and law is that law specifies in detail what kind of protection people can receive by self-discipline, how to act in accordance with the law, and what punishment they should receive when they violate it, while morality is not so detailed.”

"Laws are regulations that must be obeyed, and therefore need to be formulated by the imperial court to ensure that anyone who violates the law can be punished. Morality, on the other hand, relies more on people's own adherence to the law. These are just some of my humble opinions, and I hope they can be of help to you, sir!"

Fusu laughed and said, "Brother-in-law, you are too modest. If your views are shallow, how shallow are mine? If you hadn't enlightened me, I would have found it very difficult to understand the many reasons behind them. Governing the country with morality and governing the country with law may seem like just different choices, but in reality, they have a huge impact!"

As he spoke, Fusu stood up and bowed to Li Nian to express his gratitude: "Thank you, brother-in-law, for clearing up my doubts!"

This problem had troubled him for a long time, and now that it has been solved, it's like a cloud has been cleared from his heart, finally revealing the bright moon.

Of course, what Fusu originally wanted to ask was why his approach of benevolence and virtue didn't work in his local areas, but Li Nian's answer not only explained why it didn't work, but also explained the difference between rule of virtue and rule of law.

This brother-in-law really understands him!

The one who truly understands me, Fusu, is my brother-in-law, Li Nian!
In fact, Li Nian was very clear about Fusu's thoughts. Although he had suffered setbacks in the local area and had undergone some changes, he could not completely abandon the things he had believed in for so long in a short time.

Fusu probably still harbored the idea of ​​going back to his old ways. Li Nian told him all this to completely dispel that idea: Don't think about your old ways anymore, those ways don't work, they won't work!

(End of this chapter)